choke (2008)
後面那個穿格子襯衫的是作者ㄋㄟ 山姆搖滾好好帥喔！
可愛的作者與可愛的羊合照
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以下訪問譯自
www.ifc.com
Is it catharsis that attracts you to such dark and cynical material about
man's failings?
這些黑暗又譏憤的，關於人的失敗的題目，對你來說是不是有宣洩情感，並得到淨化的吸引力？Do you remember the movie "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert"? Pretty much
right after the credit sequence, the main character is walking home after
having done a drag show. It's pouring rain, and people are shouting and
breaking bottles in the background. Watching it, a friend of mine leaned
over and said, "Why is it raining in this scene?" It's just a scene of complete
misery, and I said, "It's raining, so that when it's not raining, it will be all the
nicer." If you start in the pit of despair with these profane, awful things,
even a glimmer of hope or awareness is going to occur that's much brighter
coming from this dark, awful beginning. That's a big part of it.
你還記得電影”沙漠妖姬”嗎？片末字卡上完後，劇中角色在人妖秀表演結束
後走路回家。這時下起傾盆大雨，背後有人一邊叫囂，一邊砸碎玻璃瓶。
看片時，我一個朋友側身過來問我：這場景裡的雨是什麼意思？這是一幕實
實在在的悲苦的場景，而我說：現在下雨，而等天晴時，每件事都會顯得更
美好。如果你以這擾人塵世之絕望的漥地為起點，那麼在這幽暗攝人的起始
中，即使是希望的一點點微光或意識也都更顯光明。這是一件重要的事。
You regularly use a literary device based upon heavily researched ephemera.
"Fight Club" punctuated ideas with "I am Jack's medulla oblongata" and other
body parts, and the "Choke" novel contains conspiracy theories, natural highs
and medical terminology. Where do you discover these bits of trivia before you
can flesh them out through research?
你經常在作品裡大量使用類研究語句為小說修辭，例如[鬥陣俱樂部]裡有
名的”我是傑克的骨髓延”，以及[窒息]小說裡的陰謀論，自然嗨，藥學術語
等等。你是打哪發現這些玩意兒的？Typically, I'll just hear one. I spend most of my life just listening to people.
Someone will say something that really seems like a terrific metaphor. In
"Choke," the theme of the book is things that aren't what they appear to
be, and I had been at a party where people were talking about a coded
security announcement in the Oregon school system. "Recess will be
held in the library" means you have to lock the doors, have your kids lie
down, turn out the lights, and wait for them to announce the lunch
special is tuna noodle casserole. "Recess will be held in the library" means
there is a school shooter killing people, and the all-clear is "tuna noodle
casserole." I just loved it, so I kept on telling this story to people who
worked in hospitals, hotels and airports, and they would tell me their own
coded security announcements. I used this one metaphor as bait to gather
countless examples of the same thing.
很簡單，我聽來的。我花了大半輩子聽人說話，其中有些確實能成為很好的
隱喻。[窒息]的主題是人們不想成為的東西。某天我在一個派對上，聽到有人
在聊奧勒岡那邊學校的安全密語通告。”圖書館休假期間開放”的意思是叫你把
門鎖上，讓孩子們躺下，關燈等到宣布”中午特餐是鮪魚麵條雜膾”為止。”圖
書館休假期間開放”的意思是有個校園殺手正在大開殺戒，而解除警報是”鮪魚
麵條雜膾”。我愛死這個了，一直講給那些在醫院、旅館、機場工作的人聽，
然後他們又講他們自己的安全密語給我聽。我用這個故事釣到一大堆差不多的東西。
（中間講
[惡搞研習營]讀書會有讀者聽了昏倒的事就不翻了請自己看小說昏倒）
以下是"我願意為你摘要"單元：
”保安會修女說，有人被殺是一回事，什麼人胸膛塌陷，在死前還想再吸一口氣，
撐起身子，發出呻吟，嘴張得好大，想吸空氣。那些胸膛塌陷的人，她說，你可以
跪在他們身邊，在沒有人看見的暗黑街道上，你可以看著他們兩眼失神，可是殺死
一隻動物，哎，那可是另外一回事了。動物，她說，一隻狗，會讓我們有人性，證
明我們的人性，死的是別人，只讓我們變得多餘，死的是隻狗或貓，一隻鳥或一隻
蜥蜴，就讓我們像上帝。
－ p.253
What inspired the choking scam in "Choke"?
[窒息]裡的騙局靈感來源是？09242008_choke3.jpgThe germ of the story was me driving home after having
identified my father's body in Idaho after he was murdered in 1999. My life was
so filled with stress: the "Fight Club" movie coming out, my father being killed,
and being responsible for helping the police. On the way home, I started to
fantasize about someone with a very boring, but stressful life who would
periodically pull over on these isolated highways in the middle of the night, leave
the car running, the headlights on, even the driver's door open, and would lie
down on the shoulder just off the highway, in the gravel, in the headlights, knowing
that someone would eventually show up, see his very boring car with a baby seat,
and see him as this well-dressed person collapsed in the road. This would be a
sheriff or a deputy, an authority with a uniform, badge and a gun, and they would put
two fingers against his neck. At that point, he would be really cold lying on the
gravel at night. And these two warm fingers would feel his neck for a pulse, and
this authority figure would say, "It's going to be okay. Are you all right? I'm here to
help you." This person would embrace, lift and coax him back into his life, all the
time repeating this reassurance and nurturing mantra. I almost did it that night
as I was driving back, but I really didn't want to get that dirty, lying down in my best
clothes. So I turned it into a guy who would choke in restaurants for that same
moment of public catharsis, where he would be allowed to completely look terrible,
weep, and be in crisis, but have the complete sympathy of all the people around him.
在我開車回家的路上。1999年，我爸被謀殺，我去伊達荷州確認他的屍體。
那時我的生活備受壓力：[鬥陣俱樂部]電影上映，老爸被殺，我有義務幫警方
查案。於是在路上，我開始幻想起一個人有非常無聊，但壓力重重的生活，
照三餐在大半夜裡從馬路中央被抓走，車還在跑，燈也還亮著，連車門都是
開的。然後就在公路上或某處礫石地，他倒下，肩膀著地，在車燈的照耀
下，心裡明白某人終究會出現，來看他那無趣至極的，附有嬰兒坐椅的轎車
，來看他這麼一個衣冠筆挺之人如何在馬路上崩潰。那應該是個郡督或類似
的傢伙，穿了一套代表權力的制服，有章徽和配槍，而他會伸出兩根手指抵
住他的脖子一會兒，然後這權力的化身開口說道：”不會有事的。你還好嗎？
我是來幫你的。”這人將擁抱他，支持他，安撫他回去他的生活裡，這時間
將不斷重複再三保證看照的祝禱文。那晚開車路上，我幾乎就要這麼做了，
但我不想穿我最好的衣服趴在地上弄髒。所以我把這想法轉換成一個在餐廳
裡噎到的人，這裡有類似的公開的心理宣洩，他可以盡情地表現出脆弱不堪
，大肆求救，而附近的每一個人都會真心且真正地同情他。
What would be your outlet if you didn't have writing to vent?
如果不以寫作為出口，什麼會是你的發洩方式？It would either be some sort of extreme sport thing that would really exhaust
me, or it would be substance abuse. Either way, I think it would be some sort
of physical outlet that would wear me out. [Physical activity] clears my head.
Some of the best ideas I get seem to happen when I'm doing mindless
manual labor or exercise. I'm not sure how that happens, but it leaves
me free for remarkable ideas to occur.
我會來些極限運動來把自己搞死，或是濫用藥物。總之是以肉體上的發洩
來讓自己筋疲力盡。身體活動讓我腦袋澄淨。我的某些最好的點子是在我
做不動腦的手工勞做或練習時蹦出來的。我不清楚這怎麼發生的，但這讓
我準備好靈光乍現。
Since all of the damaged characters in all of your books have sprung from
your head, who would you say you'd most identify with?
既然書中所有這些破碎的角色都源自你的腦袋，其中有哪個最是你的自我認同？Denny [from "Choke"]. I really love idiot, enlightened characters -- these
characters who fail to engage with the drama of their immediate
circumstances; they fail to be reactive and enrolled by drama as it happens
around them. It's not mentioned in the movie, but in the book, there's a
sentence that sums up Denny, that when he had his first inadvertent orgasm
as a child, his impulse was that he had invented this thing. [He felt] he could
teach it in seminars and it would make him rich, and no one in his family would
ever have to work again because he would be so fantastically wealthy from this
thing he had invented. That was the same way with me. I really thought the
first time that I had invented this thing and I was heartbroken when I realized it
was just an orgasm.
[窒息]裡的丹尼。我愛死了又純又蠢的白痴人物－－他們無法應付生命裡的即席
演出的戲碼，無法對週遭故事有反應或被納入。電影裡沒有，但小說有提到丹尼
的理論：他小時後第一次意外的性高潮，他很興奮，以為是他發明了高潮，他想
他可以靠開研討會教大家如何高潮來賺錢，他的家人再也不用出門工作因為他會
因為他的發明而有錢得作夢也想不到。這跟我有點像。我第一次高潮時也以為那
是我發明的，等我明白那”不過是一次高潮”時我心都碎了。
So that, and both you and Denny are chronic masturbators.
喔，所以你和丹尼都是長期手淫者？I wish I had that kind of energy. [laughs]
希望我有那精力。(笑)
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